Trumpism bullshit, backward hillbilly idiots, gentrification, pc culture, dead junkies, opioids, and designer clothes; these are some of the topics that were discussed when we sat down with artists Kayla Mahaffey and Carlos Ramirez, and Thinkspace Projects curator Andrew Hosner. Not per se the conversation we imagined but then again, the STRAAT Gallery show we rocked with these wonderful people does have the apt title Shared Experience. Check out the full interview below to learn more about Kayla, Carlos and modern-day USAâŠ
STRAAT: Whatâs your impression of our museum so far?
Kayla: Well, first: itâs huge! But I also like how itâs kinda gritty - but in a good way - and has a little art flair at the same time. And I like that it still feels welcoming enough and modern at the same time.
Carlos: Like Kayla said - Iâm very impressed by the size, it's cavernous. And I love how you guys worked with what was already here and made the most of it. It actually fits really well, and it also touches on the Dutch industrial age.
Andrew: The fact that you guys are smart enough to touch on the history I think is one of the nicest things about this place. You went through the trouble of actually coming out on the museum side of things and making sure everything is timelined and explained. I mean, you can walk through and do a nice little 20 minute visual experience, but you can also spend 3, 4, 5 hours here and really walk away with better knowledge of why people tag on walls and how thatâs developed into muralism and everything else over the years, and how it continues to take over the world on a pretty grandiose scale. And then - speaking of grandiose -, thatâs the other thing; it really makes you feel small. When we first walked in and did the tour with David [Roos, STRAAT curator*], we were all gobsmacked. I did a quick little video that just said âwowâ - Iâve never gotten more replies to a story⊠Honestly, you should just have that on the front door: âprepare to be wowedâ.
STRAAT: Well, we have also been wowed by the works of Kayla and Carlos. Andrew, how would you describe Kaylaâs art?
Andrew: Like the heartbeat of the Midwest. The heartbeat of a young black female in America, that represents the struggle of growing up in probably the most turbulent racial times of recent memory. I feel itâs looking very similar to the sixties and the seventies, itâs like weâve taken a major step back with all the Trumpism bullshit, and what that has empowered people to say and do, and feel that they can say and do to people of any color. Thatâs what the whole notion of the show was; how when Carlos was coming up during that first period I just mentioned, and now Kayla, whoâs 25 to 30 years younger than him, theyâre sadly to this day still experiencing the same shit. If anything, itâs now almost worse, âcause weâve got the whole notion of open carry in the mix. Now you got all these radicalized white fuckin morons that are running around - these people are so backwards, man.Â
Carlos: Tell âem how you really feel, Andrew!
Andrew: Hillbilly idiots, who breed their kids, and give them American flag tattoos and swastikaâs when theyâre 10, 11 years old, because their dad wants them to know who they are. And then youâre just branded for life. I mean, there are a few States in America we could do without⊠It would make the world a better place. And now everybody's saying: âOh, but we have a Democrat president.â Okay, but that doesnât change who these people are. And now that they have been radicalized for 8 years, itâs not gonna get any better any time soon.
STRAAT: As much as we hear you, can we navigate this convo back to the artsâŠ
Andrew: Right⊠In a nutshell: Kayla Mahaffeyâs work represents the struggle of somebody in their twenties or thirties in inner-city America. Doesnât matter which color you are, but ultimately sheâs beautifully nuanced, subtly smashing reality in your face with a pretty package. You can enjoy the art for what it is - and a lot of people do - , but when you really delve into it, when you read one of her interviews, or you get the time to chat with her for 5 minutes at one of her shows and she unravels all of the nuances of submeanings and context behind the works, you walk away a changed person.Â
STRAAT: Kayla, do you have anything to add to this?
Kayla: I do agree. Even when Andrew was talking about growing up a certain way - âcause you know, being on the South Side of Chicago was wild, so I feel with my art I want to serve up some kind of hope in a way -, being in those areas a lot of times people feel hopeless. Or they feel like they can only follow one straight line of doing things: âIf I wanna make money, I gotta sell drugsâ. They feel like there are only a few avenues they can take. Thatâs why I feel itâs important I add a certain nostalgia to my art from when we were younger. That was the last time before getting older, going through puberty, and having to deal with real life.
Andrew: And when things were just easy, you didnât have to do anything except be creative, running around the streets having fun.
Kayla: Exactly. So I like my pieces to have that contrast, some of the kids arenât necessarily aware of whatâs going on around them, but some of them are. I like to play on that. That fantasy of being a child, and surrounding yourself in a bubble, contrasting that with the reality of seeing other things, that even though you may not necessarily see them, they are still happening.
Andrew: When we were unwrapping your piece of the girl on the swing, Hyland [Mather, STRAAT Gallery curator*] stopped in his tracks and just looked at it and went: âmaaaanâ. I was like: âthat look huh?â. And he just went: âduuuudeâ. I mean that piece could have sold a thousand times. And Hyland said you just nailed that look of judgment. And that is indeed what that face saysâŠ
STRAAT: We would love to hear your take on Carlosâ work as wellâŠ
Andrew: Well, Iâve known Carlos for 15, 20 years⊠Iâve been a collector and superfan of his work with the Date Farmers. Back in the day, he was coming up through this gallery that my wife and I frequented a lot, New Image Art. It just captured the raw energy bubbling under the oppression of South Central Mexican culture thatâs so prevalent in Los Angeles. And with him coming from the Indio area in Coachella, that area is very wasteland, on the cusp of the Salton Sea. That whole area just has a vibe. Their work just captured that vibe. As someone that came from the Midwest, coming out there, I was just soaking in the cultureâŠ
Carlos: And making something out of nothingâŠ
Andrew: Absolutely! One of my wifeâs and my true loves is folk art, and when that can be worked into, I guess, contemporary art - for lack of a better term - it always fascinates me. Carlosâ use of found materials is just⊠it all speaks to the culture that made him who he is. And then thereâs his cross-hatching. Cross-hatching is so time intensive. You have to really plot it out to have the shade take shape, you have to really think about it. And with Carlos, you can tell he doesnât think about it, itâs just how he draws.Â
Add to that his use of colors, which are very vibrant and representative of the street shops you see throughout Mexico. You can tell there are lots and lots of years of visual culture flowing through his brain and coming out of his hands. He still makes these robot set-ups of old coffee cans and oil cans. Itâs the remaking of everything. Even when we were walking around today we were both grabbing stuff he was gonna put on his mural.Â
Itâs actually hard to put into words. But my wife and I own about 20 pieces by Carlos. I absolutely love his work. Itâs something I always say to everybody: Iâm not gonna try to sell you something if I donât collect it first. I also loved Kaylaâs work before I approached her, got a piece from her, ran up to her and started talking to her. But to go back to Carlosâ work, it just has this vibrant energy, this visual fuck you! [Laughter all around] Itâs taking something from nothing and really making the most of it.Â
Carlos: A small part of it was always revitalizing, repurposing and giving back in a cultural, wasteful commentary, back to the peopleâŠ
Andrew: It's like how one personâs trash is another personâs treasureâŠÂ
Carlos: Like somebody drinking that chocolate hoo hoo I used for my muralâŠ
Andrew: And the funniest thing was, a little bit of chocolate hoo hoo drips out, and you could tell for a second he wanted to wipe it off, but then he was like: âno, I like thatâ. Once it dried, it was a really wild brown. It was like a happy accident. You know the saying âdonât lose your inner elephant?â. I donât think either of these guys have lost their inner elephant, you know. Because Kayla was so formed by her coming-of-age, where hope starts to dwindle but you donât want to get rid of it. And Carlos still makes something out of nothing - most artists donât do that anymore - but the way he does it, he makes this amazing contemporary art, because itâs so infused by years of visual pop culture explosionsâŠ
STRAAT: The name of our collective STRAAT Gallery show is Shared Experience. Kayla, how would you describe this experience you and Carlos share?
Kayla: Even though weâre from different sides of the country and from different age groups, I feel like the common thread is weâre both artists, but also artists of color. I feel there is a relatability there, even though we donât have to say it, we can feel it.Â
Carlos: Thatâs what I liked when I saw her work. Being able to work with her, I couldnât help but think: âwow, itâs fucking amazing, Iâm a male, older - sheâs a female, younger -, sheâs Black, Iâm Mexican, and she reminds me of the old poet laureates of the time, but a modern one.â And I see you composing with everything you can find, and I can see where sheâs coming from. Itâs an innocence lostâŠ
Kayla: I always say that - it is indeed an innocence lostâŠ
Carlos: When I see her work, I see the hurt, I see the purgeâŠ
Kayla: But also with the different styles, and how they melt together, I also see that in your art. How you collect and then bring it all together. Itâs similar, even though yours might be 3D, and mine is 2D combusted together like a cluster.
Carlos: We both make compositions with found objectsâŠ
Kayla: But mine are more like found memoriesâŠ
Andrew: Yours [Kaylaâs*] is more like a journalistic approach, like youâre flipping through your visual memory journal. You can tell there are works that are based on memories of youth, which seem a little more happier. And then thereâs other ones where you can tell where you were in your life, which look like, okay, shitâs realâŠÂ
Carlos: I think in a hundred years her work will have illustrated what the times wereâŠ
Andrew: Both you guys will be in museums for years to come. You both have really captured a time. Thatâs what museums look for. Sometimes people donât realize it in time though. Theyâll say Kaylaâs work is too illustrative, or Carlosâ work is too simple⊠It takes a decade or two to pass before some stuffy fuckers will see it too. And then everyoneâs like: âooooh, I canât get one!â. Well, you could have got one ten years ago. You could have been a visionary instead of being a follower.Â
Thatâs whatâs so great about STRAAT, you guys are forward-thinking. In 20, 30 years, every museum on the planet is going to want some sort of section of this. Theyâre gonna have to. Otherwise people will ask them: âokay, but where is the street art section, where are the murals?â. Youâre gonna look like a dipshit if you donât have it⊠But you know, some people still want to argue that itâs not fine artâŠ
*EDITORâS NOTE: This is where the conversation really started to go âleftâ. We took a little detour past gateway drugs, people who use the internet - but actually canât, litigation bullshit, gentrification, pc culture, dead junkies, Skid Row becoming Skid City, the war on drugs being the war on the poor, prostitution, opioids, heroin, designer clothes, lobbyists, water being more expensive than gasoline, healthy food vs fast food prices. But we did make it back to artâŠ
STRAAT: Is the fact that this art conversation transformed into this [the subject matter mentioned above*] proof of the shared experience?
Andrew: Politics and life ultimately fuels art. They are the two gas tanks of art. You canât talk about art and not talk about politics and life. Art is supposed to spark intelligent conversation. Great art can influence change if itâs done powerfully enough.
STRAAT: Last but not least, we would love to know what Carlos admires about Kaylaâs work and vice versaâŠ
Carlos: When I first saw her work, the first thing that popped into my mind was âthe true meaning of disciplineâ. The discipline she chose in her life⊠She knows how to pull from her well of thought, her well of consciousness and merge it all together. But the most important thing I see in the center of her work. The facial expressions. I donât know if itâs safe to say that it is you [Kayla*]...
Kayla: At one time, everyone was a child. I donât necessarily want it to be physically one person. I paint âa child..â
Carlos: No, I didnât mean literally you, but like a representativeâŠ
Kayla: I still want it to be me in some cases [laughs].
STRAAT: Speaking of you, what do you see in Carlosâ workâŠ
Kayla: I like that Carlosâ work⊠- I feel like I am more restricted. I can do other things, but I am kind of stuck in a style, not in a bad way. But I love Carlosâ experimental side of his work. Heâs more free⊠When it comes to how you [Carlos*] make stuff, I feel youâre more spontaneous. I really appreciate that. Itâs got me thinking that I need to be more spontaneous and mix it up. I love how he tries different things. He just goes. Me, I need to keep everything organizedâŠ
Carlos: Iâm a mess [laughs].
Andrew: It was actually their color palettes that inspired me to bring these two together. When Hyland hit me up, he originally wanted two or four artists, very US-based and focused on US topics. Thatâs all he told me. So I thought about it for a couple of days and well, here we are.Â
Carlos: When I first looked at Kaylaâs work, I noticed it was pretty, but itâs much much deeperâŠ
Kayla: But your stuff has a lot of depth tooâŠ
Andrew: Man, once you delve into itâŠ
SHARED EXPERIENCE is on view at the STRAAT Gallery until Sunday, October 30th. We invite you to come visit this powerful gallery exhibition as part of a regular museum admission ticket. Both Kayla and Carlos also added a canvas to our STRAAT collection. You can also find nice items by both Kayla and Carlos in our shop.
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Interview: Alex Pope
Photos: STRAAT / Lance Bradbrook
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